America as oppressor

In the Poem "America" the strong contradictions between America as a place of freedom and Ginsburg's visions of America as a place of oppression. The poem questions America's treatment of outsiders as criminals "America free Tom Mooney/ America save the Spanish Loyalists/America Sacco and Vanzett must not die /America I am the Scottsboro boys. " Ginsburg also introduces others' ethnicity and political viewpoints throughout the poem claiming either to be those foreigners as he does in the above quote, or to be completely against the diverse population that makes up America. When he uses this later method however, the lines are over emphasized creating a sense of paranoia. "America you don're really want to go to war. /America it's them bad Russians./ Them Russians them Russians and them Chinamen. /And them Russians. /The Russia wants to eat us alive. /The Russia's power mad. /She wants to take our cars from out our garages. " The contradictions of America's population and political choices are well emphasized in Ginsberg's reading and are used to show an internal turmoil that Ginsberg is facing as he reads to us.

Another Post on America

After reading the poem I went back and marked off all the times that the words “you” or “I” appeared and I found that it dominates most of the poem. This technique illustrates Ginsberg’s “me against you” relationship with his country that he maintains throughout most of the poem. There is a small section of the poem where he tries to ease up on this view after he declares “I am America”, but even this only lasts until line 64 when he can no longer continue this point of view.
Along with viewing the poem as a stream of thought I also saw it as a sort of confessional. He seems to be using the image/idea of America as a way to look back on himself, and although he does condemn America for its various infringements he also seems to be looking poorly upon himself as well.

allen ginsberg has been described as an "olympian" of a ranter, and in this piece he is at his finest. "america" seems to be the unravelling of a mental knot. or rather he is simply playing with it, examining it from all sides. he doesn't seem to answer his own question because he is not sure what he is asking, either of himself or of america. i think this poem is an attempt to express humanity it its most bare, taking its clothes off in front of the mirror of the self. he emits his thoughts as they occur, each line both stands alone and functions as some integral part of a greater idea, or some step in a convoluted process. like pynchon, ginsberg seems to address the trappings of humanity in the modern world by attempting to express the confusion directly. he is trying to reconstruct the culture of both america and his own mind, so that he might examine both of them and understand what is happening. he is, as most human beings are, a study of paradox. he is at once both disgusted with america and her past atrocities and her current insane obsessions (go fuck yourself with you atom bomb," "i'm sick of your insane demands", "when will you send al your eggs to india?" "i say nothing about the prisons nor the millions of underprivileged..." "save the spanish loyalists," "the russia wants to eat us alive") and yet something keeps him from simply decrying america. perhaps it is the knowledge that america nonetheless gives him a pulpit to stand on, a place to shake his rants into the wind. and of course this is not good enough for ginsberg. for this same america has outlawed communism, has made the word and the idea a platform of fear and control. america has destroyed its own citizenry with war and economic destruction. this sense of confusion and disillusionment is expressed very neatly in the poem, with varying degrees of playfulness and dread. he seems to address america at points as though speaking to an emotionally cold lover who cannot share ginsberg's ideas about beauty of life, and seems unable ot hear his pleas.
i disagree with brendan's post that this poem was not well written. I found it rather apt at expressing the sort of existential and emotional dread that came about from the generation following world war two, and i find that this same sensation may still be applicable today. though it is true that ginsberg does live in america, a country that grants him the freedom to write poetry (though the publication of his early poems such as "howl" was almost halted over charges of lewd sexuality), he recognizes that still millions of americans are without a voice ("him make indians learn read," "him need big black niggers," "i still feel sentimental about the wobblies"). he recognizes that there are still many things to be fought for, including the culture that is destroying human values and turning them into a commodity ("are you going to let yor emotional life be run by time magazine?")

America

At first glance it might be hard to discern the meaning (or belief that there is much of one) behind Ginsberg's poetry. It was clear to me from the beginning simply by the styling of his poem (including it's protest-like statements) that Ginsberg was not only very drug-influenced but I believe was a person who would have been classified as a "hippie" in this late 50's era. Clearly it is a poem defiant of America: "I smoke marijuana every chance I get" is one of the many examples where Ginsberg tries to assert himself as a rebellious figure. In addition, While I cannot be sure, the line where Ginsberg says " I sit in my house for days on end and stare at the roses in the closet. " I couldn't help but think that he was discussing his trials with heroin as the pictures he presents here: "I sit in my house for days on end and stare" is extremely similar to the experiences which most heroin users have when using. I am somewhat confused though by Ginsberg's mental process in the stanza talking about Time Magazine. Is he attempting to provide the thought processes of two people? or is his saying how we should all stop reading time magazine and then his own confession to it to emphaisze the need for change? or is it to enhance a sarcastic undertone of the Machine-like culture of America and the people's misguided willingness to follow their leaders?

Walcott's Dead

As of right now, no one else has posted on this poem, and it was on the syllabus, I hope it isn't an artifact of last semester's syllabus. But I enjoyed this poem, very much so. The idea of artificial flight - I do not believe I've read a poem before that takes place from the perspective of a plain passenger.

What I really wanted to focus on was how for the majority of the poem, there are only a few completed sentences that end stanzas or part of stanzas. There are many more sentences finished within, which is an interesting writing tool. Of course, the obvious sentences are the first one, the opening: "The airport coffee tastes less of America.", which is a complete sentence, versus the last line of the poem, which awkwardly stands alone (thus putting emphasis on it): "...age after age, the uninstructing dead."

Just looking at those two lines alone brings to mind the idea of an internal emotional arch. The opening sentence, without reading anything else, seems to give a feeling of relief. Almost like: "Thank goodness I can finally get away from all that." It is a sign of perhaps something better to come. But the end of the emotional arch is not relief/hope, but instead a very resigned to the fate given. It is the realization that the dead, no matter how many there may have been and may be, cannot teach a lesson to those living today. They are unable to leave behind a symbolism, a warning, to those who may repeat their mistakes - a repetition of history.

There were also some references I was poking about looking for.

I was interested in the "trans-Texas jet", considering the timing of this flight. Thanks to a little Wikipedia searching, I found that these smaller airports, which had no more than 10 tarmacs, did well until the 1970's 'oil boom', which obviously created more flights. This relates to how Walcott sees that the "air, heavy with gas,/ sickens the state, from Newark to New Orleans."

Another reference is to Borges, and I think the poem discussed was: "The Other Tiger". Granted I found this poem online, so I do not know how accurate it would be but these few lines stuck out at me:

"Curving oceans and the planet's wastes keep us
Apart in vain; from here in a house far off
In South America I dream of you,
Track you, O tiger of the Ganges' banks."

The distance between the tiger and the poet is so far, and so much keeps them apart, far beyond the obvious difference of beast and man.

Another reference that I have trouble relating is what opens the second section: "Elizabeth wrote once/ that we make glass the image of our pain". I think it is a reference to 'The Glass of the Sinful Soul' . With some poking about, I found a review of this on JSTOR, from the Renaissance Quarterly. If I read this correctly, it is by Elizabeth I (in 1544), and she translates another poem by the Queen of Navarre. In the review it says: "...in which a tormented sinner explores the nature of God's love. In this mystical meditation, the female narrator draws on scripture to posit her soul's fourfold relationship with God, as daughter, sister, mother, and wife...". I believe this relates to how Walcott discusses the earth afterwards, in a "mother earth" sort of fashion.

I enjoyed through second section very much, while the last two I had a bit more trouble with. "Yet the South felt like home" - it begins the downwards motion of the arc, where even though the South feels like home, it is dangerous. It's important (and obvious) that he changes his dialect in the fourth stanza of the third section. I'm pretty sure this is a reference to the Klu Klux Klan and lynching. From here, the fourth section is just a heavy realization of how little today's people learn from the past, and the mistakes made in the past.

America

I did not like this poem at all. The reading nearly put me to sleep and I felt like I was listening to some rebellious 7th grader who hates life and country and anything he can find to be negative about. There wasnt one line that I saw myself going, "well written." I feel like a lot of people, who are not poets, could have written this poem.

So from a word literature standpoint, this, in my opinion, is of the lowest quality of any poem we have read this year. A lot of the poems we have read this year have really gripped the reader without having to come out and say any details. This poem sounds like some frusterated, depressed kid who is pissed off ranting about his country.

For example, does this stanza appear to be poetic:
I'm addressing you.
Are you going to let our emotional life be run by Time Magazine?
I'm obsessed by Time Magazine.
I read it every week. Its cover stares at me every time I slink past the corner candystore.
I read it in the basement of the Berkeley Public Library.
It's always telling me about responsibility.
Businessmen are serious. Movie producers are serious.
Everybody's serious but me.
It occurs to me that I am America.
I am talking to myself again.

As far as content I would say it is highly hipicritcal to a point of comedy, as the intention of this poem, if there is any, appears to be that there are all these problems with America but by writing this poem the poet is doing their part to help. This is hipicritical because there are very few places in the world that would allow someone to publicly bad mouth the country in a poem, and America is one of those places. I would think poets would like America because it gives them the freedom to write about whatever they want, which is a rare privaledge in this world.

I also disagree with a lot of his references, "America why are your libraries full of tears?" This could be a reference to all of the books written in the library which would make little sense to say this because their are plenty of happy books. I would guess the poet is refering to American history, and although many would look at all the depressing times for example: Depression, Slaves, how we treated the natives upon arrival, Wars, etc. overall people are very fortunate to live here. Realizing that there are places in the world that slaves still exist, their are over 100 wars going on across the world right now, countries are having depressions a lot more frequently than the United States, and I think our history, compared to the histories of other countries in the world, would be one of the happiest.

I cant help but think when I read the following, I did not think that was great poetry or interesting content, I thought the poet needed help.

America I used to be a communist when I was a kid and I'm not sorry.
I smoke marijuana every chance I get.
I sit in my house for days on end and stare at the roses in the closet.
When I go to Chinatown I get drunk and never get laid.
My mind is made up there's going to be trouble.
You should have seen me reading Marx.
My psychoanalyst thinks I'm perfectly right.
I won't say the Lord's Prayer.
I have mystical visions and cosmic vibrations.
America I still haven't told you what you did to Uncle Max
after he came over from Russia.


My favorite line: "I can't stand my own mind. " Because I can't stand his mind either.

America

I'm going to have to agree with Lilly here.  Listening to the poem on audio made it a completely different piece than reading it on the page.  I think this poem is one of those that really needs to be read aloud in order to appreciate.  Reading this is like trying to make sense of someone else's thought process so hearing him read it gives it life.  I know that seeing it on the page gives it a visible structure, but hearing it, the structure and rhythm really jumps out at you.  I also found it a lot funnier when read aloud then when reading it.  I liked being able to laugh at my own country. Nicely done Ginsberg.

Ginsberg's America

I really liked this poem, especially with Ginsberg's reading of it. He made it sound like someone's actual conversation with America (though maybe a disjointed or one-sided conversation). The bit around lines 80-90 was especially good to hear out loud because it gets across him making fun of the stereotypes against "them Russians and them Chinamen. And them Russians." Throughout, there seems to be a tone of childishness and silliness ("Everybody's serious but me") even though Ginsberg insists, "America this is quite serious." He boasts about things he's done wrong, such as smoking marijuana, not saying the Lord's Prayer, and for having been to Communist Cell meetings as a kid and not being sorry. This kind of attitude is one a young person might have. Also, the way he repeatedly "talks back" to this America in the first part of the poem makes him seem like an unruly teenager: "I don't feel good don't bother me. / I won't write my poem till I'm in the right mind." "I'm sick of your insane demands." Silliness comes out in the way Ginsberg treats a serious subject, national resources: "My national resources consist of two joints of marijuana millions of genitals an unpublishable private literature that goes 1400 miles an hour and twentyfive-thousand mental institutions." Perhaps the fact that "It occurs to me that I am America" causes him to say, "America how can I write a holy litany in your silly mood?" Here Ginsberg IS America, but is sometimes still addressing it and having discussions with it as if it were a separate person.

America

To me this poem seemed like a thought process in its rawest form and in some ways resembled ranting. These are private thoughts that are not normal said by Americans , usually filtered out by convention. He explains what America is doing its self and its reputation. The country is not longer respected because of its overwhelming ignorance concerning itself. The wrongs and values of America taunt him to the point that he cannot get the thoughts out of his head causing him to feel resentment towards himself; "I can't stand my own mind." He poses the question, "America when will we end the human war?" I think he uses the word "human" to emphasize that we are all humans, and all the same. War between us is self deprecating. It seems like he is having difficulty explaining his point, almost struggling because he is so distracted and angered by the process of arriving at it. He revolts against America in his own ways. He doesn't read newspapers, was a communist, smokes weed, gets drunk and by implication tries to get laid. He addresses the media and how it is controlling peoples lives. Then he had a realization. I think that this could have been that he sees that he is part of the some of the problems with America that he has been speaking about. He is America, he is speaking to America and so he is speaking to himself. The media is brought up again when speaking of America's unreasonable fear of all Russians. In the last few lines of the poem, the author says "I'd better get right down to the job." I think this, and some other lines, suggest that Ginsberg's America is about how he needs to do something, like write a poem, that will expose America to itself.

I really like Ginsberg’s poem a lot. I especially liked listening to the audio file because this helped keep the poem clear. The style of the poem is somewhat confusing because I think the author wants us to become part of his stream of consciousness. This poem personifies America as a living being, which is a commentary on the mass culture America has produced due to the “newspapers” and “Time magazine.” After all, America becomes addicted to these.
“I'm addressing you. Are you going to let our emotional life be run by Time Magazine? I'm obsessed by Time Magazine. I read it every week. Its cover stares at me every time I slink past the corner candystore. I read it in the basement of the Berkeley Public Library. It's always telling me about responsibility. Businessmen are serious. Movie producers are serious. Everybody's serious but me. It occurs to me that I am America. I am talking to myself again.”
The author distances himself from this mainstream of consumers of “Time Magazine” as he says, “Everybody’s serious but me.” The author is unlike those who read the paper ‘every week” in the “basement” of libraries. The author portrays these consumers reading the newspapers in “basements” because it creates a dark tone as if this is not a natural way to live huddle sin “basements” as a slave to the media.

Stanza 11

I liked this stanza, where Whitman ponders which pictures he shall hang on the walls "to adorn the burial-house of him i love..." Whitman then describes various scenes that he believes sum up life in Lincoln's former country. He focuses on spring as a symbol for rebirth and his words seem a reassurance against both the loss of a hero and his own mortality. He mentions the "Gorgeous, indolent, sinking sun," which seems to serve as a symbol for the passage of time and as the engine of growth that accelerates the world forward. He mentions "herbage" and "leaves," describing them as "green," "fresh," and "sweet." this seems in contrast to the grief he expresses, which might suggest the leaves of fall,as they die and fall with flashes of color. He also mentions "the breast of the river," seemingly suggesting again the passage of time and the continuation of life. "Breast" suggests motherhood, or at the very least humanity, while the river implies a carrying on. Whitman suggests that humanity will still flow forward. He finally mentions humans at the end of the stanza: "And the city...with dwellings so dense...and all the scenes of life, and the workshops and the workmen homeward returning." These images of the city life are perhaps an homage to America, the nation that Lincoln saved, thus allowing for the cities to grow dense.

Section 8

In the 8th section, Whitman addresses the moon ("O western orb sailing the heaven"), who once seemed to know something woeful was to come. Whitman does not know what it was until now, after Lincoln's death. The moon "was lost in the netherward black of the night," perhaps in the way that Lincoln himself is now gone. Whitman conveys that the moon might have had something to tell him, but did not know what it was until the event revealed itself. Here, the moon could be some all-knowing being that is unable to convey its knowledge, or Lincoln himself in his last month. This section of the poem also serves to demonstrate how even a distant part of the natural world mourns for this president, "you sad orb."

Lilacs

"Lilac" is used over 10 times in this poem. The condition or nature of the lilac is important in the understanding of the poem.

1st Reference: "when lilacs in the dooryard bloom'd...I mourn'd, and yet shall mourn with ever-returning spring." - Here Whitman is saying that the sight of the lilacs and the spring in general is no longer a time of rebirth and happiness but of morning because it marks the time that Abraham Lincoln was assasinated, which is the main basis of the poem.

2nd Reference: "lilac blooming perennial and dropping star in the west, and thought of him I love." Again, the "blooming" of the lilac is mentioned, which would normally signify a hope or rebirth but to Whitman it represents sorrow and continued mourning for the death of this national figure and how the blooming of the lilacs will never again bring him the joy that it once did.

3rd Reference: " Stands the lilac-bush tall-growing with heart-shaped leaves of rich green."
- Whitman is reflecting on how he percieved the lilacs in his past, before the death of Lincoln. The heart shaped leaves represent the love people had for lincoln (source is at the bottom). This was his perspective when he saw the lilacs as a sense of love, hope and nature.

- He interupts to say that he is breaking the lilac as his dear president was destroyed.

4th Reference: "I give you my sprig of lilac" - Here Whitman is saying that the destroyed flower is being given to Lincoln on his coffin as a symbol or respect. I believe here lies the depth of this poem, that the lilac he once adored, is no longer of the same meaning to him, but upon much mourning and reflection he puts the lilac in which he destroyed ontop of Lincolns coffin as a token of his respect, honor and loyalty.

"The act of placing flowers in a coffin is a symbolic gesture of honor and respect. Although the flower is dead, a new lilac will be reborn in the spring. Similarly, when spring returns, Lincoln's memory will be revived through this elegy. Whitman's attempt to deal with death is a turning point in the poem. " (source below)

5th Reference: "now the lilac that blooms the first" - In this passage Whitman is signaling to the reader that he is no longer interested in destroying the lilac but more important to him is the rebirth of the lilac and through his elergy the rebirth of the spirit of Lincoln. This also proves that through the great depths of pain that he is experiencing, he is learning how to cope with the death as the elergy serves as his medication."

Last Reference: "I leave thee lilac with heart-shaped leaves, I leve thee there in the dooryard, blooming, returning with spring." Here the tone completely changes from complete and utter grief to a glimpse of hope. He recognizes that he will always feel the loss of his hero but he is also ready to move on.

I originally did not understand this poem, and then I read the following article which I derived all my ideas from in this post, that helped me understand the poem through the subject of the lilac.

Link: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/470522/when_lilacs_last_in_the_dooryard_bloomd.html?page=2&cat=2 By Cameron Pierce, published Dec 07, 2007